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November 03, 2004

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Marty Hughes

Seth,

Thanks for logging onto the forum and voicing your opinion. I appreciate your comments and the thought which went into them.

We both agree that the deaths of innocent civilians in Iraq is an atrocity. Speaking with you, it's obvious that you do not feel the deaths in Iraq were (or continue to be) justified by 9/11. However, the point I was trying to make is that a vote for Bush serves to validate his decision to enter America in a war in Iraq under false pretenses. By voting Bush back into office, the voter is effectively saying that the slaughter should continue, and what's happened in the past is OK...no change in leadership is necessary. I compared the 3000 lives lost in 9/11 with 100 000 lives lost in Iraq. This tells me the current administration values the lives of Americans over the lives of Iraqis. What's more, what is the life of an Iranian worth in the eyes of this administration? How about the life of a Canadian? Where does this cycle of violence and occupation end? Who's to say that Canada, a nation rich in natural resources, won't be the next target for an ever-expanding neoconservative economic agenda?

Despite the attempts of networks like CNN and Fox to scare the public into believing the next terrorist attack is right around the corner, the reality is that attacks on America are more likely with Bush in power. Why? Since the invasion of Iraq, anti-American sentiment has grown considerably in many nations around the world, in particular the Middle East. Muslims are vehemently opposed to the persecution they face on a daily basis, as most of us would be if we came home to discover our house lying in ruins and our children dead after being pounded by an afternoon air strike from American forces. Further, the invasion of Iraq has effectively INCREASED the number of individuals willing to sacrifice their lives in the desire to topple the American war machine, and drive them from their homeland. Whether this translates into violence within America is anybody's guess, but having seen the lengths people are willing to go to (ie suicide bombers), is it that far of a stretch? Finally, having read the entire manuscript from the recently released Bin Laden tape, an ominous message is sent to the American people from the world's # 1 wanted man. In his message to the American people, Bin Laden states:

No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.

But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.

Sounds like a forecast of things to come if I've ever heard it.

You know that I don't think attacks or violence against anyone is justified...that's something I explicitly told you during our conversation (with direct reference to the attacks on 9/11). In no way would I EVER welcome such a notion. What I'm trying to point out is that Americans shouldn't be entirely surprised when bad things happen on home soil. Again, you know that I abhor violence and wish no ill will on any of the world's citizens, be they American, Canadian, Iraqi, Guatemalan, or Pakistani. If violence begets further violence, then why not stop killing Iraqis?

It doesn't make me happy to talk about the monsters the US has created through the recruitment, arming, and training of dictators in years gone by. These are facts which history will not let us forget...nor should we forget them, given the lesson they teach us about sacrificing long term stability and lives for short-term strategic gain. Regardless of who cast the first stone, there is always another path to follow. Unfortunately, there is no room for peace in the agenda of the current administration, so an examination of the history and sociological context of the conflict is irrelevant. Peace is not a money-maker these days. We both agree that there are serious conflicts of interest amongst the top people in the Bush Administration concerning their involvement in the contracts doled out for the rebuilding of Iraq. I find it difficult to accept that Iraq must make millions of dollars in reparations to the US for the damage America inflicted upon Iraqi infrastructure over the course of the past year, with several top people in the Bush Administration making serious financial gains from this.

In terms of what terrorists expected from the US following the attacks? They got exactly what they expected and wanted: increased justification of their cause once Afghanistan and Iraq had been occupied, helping ease the recruitment amongst those opposed to American occupation. They are also financially draining the US, who insists on pouring money hand over fist into a war which cannot possibly end, while diverting funding away from important social programs or those Americans living around the poverty line. This is something Bin Laden points out is his message:

As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

And even more dangerous and bitter for America is that the mujahidin recently forced Bush to resort to emergency funds to continue the fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is evidence of the success of the bleed-until-bankruptcy plan - with Allah's permission.

It is true that this shows that al-Qaida has gained, but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced. And it all shows that the real loser is ... you.

I know we disagree on a lot of points here Seth, but again, I appreciate you voicing your own views and thoughts on the issues at hand. You are an incredibly caring individual with an open mind and I value your friendship tremendously. We share a lot of common ground, and disagreements on politics are nothing new amongst friends. Thanks for writing.

Best,
Marty

Seth Hosmer

Marty -

I think that we both agree that the Iraqi civilian deaths are a bad thing. And no - contrary to your entry on your blog - I do not think that 100k Iraqi deaths are justified by 9/11...not sure where you got that idea from because I certainly didn't say that in our conversation on 11/2.

I also thought that your line here was interesting:
"Well folks, Alert Status: Red, because the terrorists will be marching again if Bush and his band of merry invaders are officially sworn into office for a second term."

This suggestst that you feel that terrorist attacks on the US are more likely to happen now that Bush has been elected, and the overall tone in your blog implies that in your mind such attacks would be justified (and welcomed). I thought that you were against violence, especially against civilians? But perhaps you feel that the terrorist attacks are justfied? - remember, however, that that justification is in the eye of the beholder, and this will only perpetuate the US resolve to continue its "war on terror". Violence begets further violence.

I'm sure that you'll be only too happy to suggest that in your mind the US cast the first stone, and part of the problem now is related to backlash from the US supplying weapons and military technology to the same people that are now seen as the terrorist "problem". Be that as it may, the situation is the one that we are dealing with NOW, though the entire history and sociological context of the conflict needs to be factored into decisions for further action.

I believe that the bottom line is that the US was attacked, and it was an attack on civilians. And there is only one thing that you can expect from the largest military force in the world - what did they think would happen? Especially with Bush at the helm? I am *DEFINITELY NOT* saying that I think an offensive military stance and unilateral cop of the world approach is a good thing - especially in the context of economic environment with respect to natural resources, and the US consumption of such resources. I only want to get back to my prior point that violence begets violence, and terrorist acts do not accomplish anything except strengthen US resolve to find and kill the terrorists.

-Seth

Zen Masta J

Our good friend Fish Sauce pointed me to the direction of this little tidbit:
http://www.knife-party.net/flash/barry.html

a very interesting piece of work, which will definitely make you think about the motives of the right wing politicians in the USA.

take a look, marty, you'll appreciate it

Sha Sha

Hi,

Buddy pointed me to your site (I work with him). I think this is an extremely enlightened point of view, and I hope that more people take what you say to heart.

Charlie Tatum

Marty, you've absolutely hit the nail on the head here. While it is truly unbelievable how susceptible my fellow countrymen (and women) are to the mass media fear machine, the only thing people like us can do is be as honest, forthright, and most of all informed as posslibe and willing to share what we've learned with those around us who would listen. I have an idea that Nov. 2, 2004 might well be looked upon ten, twenty, or fifty years from now as the true beginning of the end of America as a leader and builder is this world. War is an archaic atrocity in the best light, and an Orwellian nightmare is this age of progress and communication. Let's hope cooler heads prevail in the end.

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